Curse

deadlynoob · Jan 20, 2008, 10:42 PM // 22:42

in fact, i am most annoyed by this statement

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

That aside, I can confidently say that a player has a higher chance to learn much more in a balanced team consisting of many professions and builds rather than a group of six people using UB.

What is your proof on this? Did "a player" ever asked you to stand out for him?

Moreover, don't you think you have been violating other player's free will? Let people who wanted to ursan do their stuff, you can sit aside and wait for a "BALANCED" group to come and do your things. This weekend, you see hundreds of people running around in wurm, and no one is crying out for wurms to get nerfed... let me remind you that wurms are actually stronger, and does not even require 1 or 2 monk to operate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Unless I'm wrong, the skills are only unlocked for your account, not your character. So that entitlement for PvE still remains (this too, as you pointed out, varoes). The unlock packs are there for purchase to make the PvP playing field equal - as it should be.

Indeed you are mistaken. with the introduction of skill packs, players who have purchased those does have an advantage over any role-playing character who went PvP. For a mere price of 5.00, skill pack buyers receives advantages over players who have not yet unlocks all the skills ( or players who have not yet buy the skill pack).

now, if you are wrong on this aspect, could it be that all your previous arguments are based on this wrong sense of fairness?

ensoriki · Jan 20, 2008, 10:53 PM // 22:53

Ursan needs a nerf thats all it comes down too.
A-net probably realizes this but its not high on their priority list
GW2 and then PvP are, Ursan haters take a back seat.

To Those who love Ursan, so be it, note it has a rather high chance of being nerfed sometime within now and 3 months do not be surprised if it happens, and so to prepare for that play with it all you want for now.

>.>

zwei2stein · Jan 20, 2008, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadlynoob

What is your proof on this? Did "a player" ever asked you to stand out for him?

Players exposed to well run ballanced build improves, speaking from self experience as well as from several cases i have seen. Most people do want quality pugs, so it is kinda positive for everyone to happen.

About free will. Do you think someone creating caster character wished to play more important parts of game as warrior? Maybe Anet violated his free will by creating the one and only option he has when he wants to group with other people. Meditate over this. Maybe you are violating their free will by running ursan and strengtening this status quo.

Nerfing ursan would be like nerfing any other skill - players would excercise their free will by running builds without it. I dare to say that they would have more controll over themselves that way.

Also, let me remind you that to do anything of worth (i.e vanq) you have to get out of wurm.

Crom The Pale · Jan 20, 2008, 11:23 PM // 23:23

Nerfing Ursan Blessing would just add yet another skill to the already massive list of skills that nobody every uses.

Why not fix a few skills that people don't use to create some more variety in the game????

Chris Blackstar · Jan 20, 2008, 11:37 PM // 23:37

PvE skills were specifically made to be powerful, Anet is not going to take that away, also, Ursan blessing is one skill that encourages pug groups, something anet has been striving for since GW has been released. Lastly, no one said you have to use the skill, PvE does not need balance, and if people are over farming or concouring and area too fast, anet will just improve loot scaleing, or make the area harder.

Bryant Again · Jan 20, 2008, 11:48 PM // 23:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadlynoob

What is your proof on this? Did "a player" ever asked you to stand out for him?

As Zwei2stein has already touched upon, when in an Ursan group you are not being exposed and introduced to a wide array of professions. Besides those two monks there is little variety to no variety in what people are using.

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadlynoob

Indeed you are mistaken. with the introduction of skill packs, players who have purchased those does have an advantage over any role-playing character who went PvP.

Well firstly, any pvp character will have an advantage over a PvE character. It's not biggie since PvP characters can be made by anyone.

That aside: So I am mistaken? Role playing characters *do* get every skill unlocked on their account when you buy the pack?? That was my question, and I thought that was false.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

Why not fix a few skills that people don't use to create some more variety in the game????

Because taking Ursan is much more easier than having to put together a build. With Ursan, you don't have to worry about what skills to bring or how to distribute your attribute points.

trobinson97 · Jan 20, 2008, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

To Those who love Ursan, so be it, note it has a rather high chance of being nerfed sometime within now and 3 months do not be surprised if it happens, and so to prepare for that play with it all you want for now.

Lol, no.

89101112

Esan · Jan 21, 2008, 12:03 AM // 00:03

[generic statement supporting Ursan]
[generic retort opposing Ursan]
[generic post flaming Ursan supporters]
[generic comment about one of #3's parents]
[generic whine about yet another Ursan thread]

Frizzles · Jan 21, 2008, 12:16 AM // 00:16

I can't say i like ursan.
It doesn't matter me much that people get their titles/money/whatever the easy way.
What bothers me is that people barely use anything else.
I do want to play with people, and I want a challlenge.

Making elite area's and hardmode into non-elite area's and easymode is not the way to improve a game.
Sure it might have been too hard for you before, but it's not called an elite area or called hardmode because it's intended to be easy.

Still most of the so-called self proclamed pro's/ hardcore players are complete idiots calling everyone noob if people aren't as good as they are (mostly self-proclamed again).
Now the newer players can play hardmode on easymode and do DoA as a normal mission.
Too bad it rigs any challenge in the game for me and others.
I'm not sure i'd like to play DoA ...pong style..

Snow Bunny · Jan 21, 2008, 12:30 AM // 00:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa

The concept behind nerfing PvE skills differs to that of PvP skills. If you can't figure out why that's not my fault. Post less crap please.

Sure, the concepts are different, but baseline reason stays the same. Try to have more adequacy when attempting to split hairs. Thanks for playing.

ensoriki · Jan 21, 2008, 12:34 AM // 00:34

Lulz Sneak Attack should become a skill for pve and pvp

So I can have lulz

Tyla · Jan 21, 2008, 12:49 AM // 00:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadlynoob

What is your proof on this? Did "a player" ever asked you to stand out for him?

It's obvious.
You learn how to play the PROFESSION, instead of learn how to spam and rush.
And you learn bar comprehension.

Quote:

Moreover, don't you think you have been violating other player's free will? Let people who wanted to ursan do their stuff, you can sit aside and wait for a "BALANCED" group to come and do your things. This weekend, you see hundreds of people running around in wurm, and no one is crying out for wurms to get nerfed... let me remind you that wurms are actually stronger, and does not even require 1 or 2 monk to operate.

Wurms only get access to the desolation.

Quote:

now, if you are wrong on this aspect, could it be that all your previous arguments are based on this wrong sense of fairness?

Don't argue again.

deadlynoob · Jan 21, 2008, 01:05 AM // 01:05

@ensoriki: don't jump to conclusion, or i may as well say you are idiotic.
@zwei2stein:

Players exposed to well run ballanced build improves, speaking from self experience as well as from several cases i have seen. Most people do want quality pugs, so it is kinda positive for everyone to happen.

you actually don't keep showing your builds around when you join groups, or you can simply force everyone to read guildwiki to improve. Hasn't it comes to you that spreading common builds around kills creativity?
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About free will. Do you think someone creating caster character wished to play more important parts of game as warrior? Maybe Anet violated his free will by creating the one and only option he has when he wants to group with other people. Meditate over this. Maybe you are violating their free will by running ursan and strengtening this status quo.

again, if the caster wished to play caster, he does not need to be forced into playing ursa, he could wait for ensoriki, zwei2stein, and so many anti-ub people to form a party. it really isnt the only option, since its his own choice whether to equip UB or not
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Nerfing ursan would be like nerfing any other skill - players would excercise their free will by running builds without it. I dare to say that they would have more controll over themselves that way.

Again, this is just your opinion on how ub cannot excercise one's will. theres 5 buttons of actions which you can execute, moreover, say if someone dies, it is still necessary to switch off ursa and use a hard res. Really, nerfing a popular skill just because everyone is using isn't correct.

monks should really get a nerf for their same spell breaker/protective spirit etc /sarcacsm
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Also, let me remind you that to do anything of worth (i.e vanq) you have to get out of wurm.

i was only talking about the farming aspect, no one actually cares about vanquishing, but to farm those ss/lb points. Do you realize how imba that is? to see our poor bosses(without naming names) getting raped over and over again every minute.
================================================== =======
@bryant again
Bryant, stop assuming everyone is rich like you, buying all the skill packs/stuff
we are not spoiled people.

Sorry but your logic is messed up. How would the number of usable skill
increase just by making PvP character? without purchasing skill pack, PvE characters would have less skills to choose from, even if that same PvE player creates another PvP character, you still have to go through all the trouble earning factions to unlock skills, in contrasted to skill pack people.

more over, i believe you and your messed up logic went off topic again.
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Besides those two monks there is little variety to no variety in what people are using.

Bryant got a good point, monks needs a nerf everytime they find a way to solo temple hm
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@frizzles
again, go party search for non-ursan user. People can decide for themselves instead of others whining and demanding everyone to be "equal".
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@tyla salanari
wurms only get access to the desolation
and that is all people needed to max out their ss/lb titles, or even get rich from repetitive runs.

It's obvious.
You learn how to play the PROFESSION, instead of learn how to spam and rush.
And you learn bar comprehension.

we do know how to play our profession, it is you who do not understand the concept of efficiency
look at a ranger complaining about spamming skills. thought rangers are experts at spamming skills.

Tyla · Jan 21, 2008, 01:20 AM // 01:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadlynoob

@tyla salanari
wurms only get access to the desolation
and that is all people needed to max out their ss/lb titles, or even get rich from repetitive runs.

It's obvious.
You learn how to play the PROFESSION, instead of learn how to spam and rush.
And you learn bar comprehension.

we do know how to play our profession, it is you who do not understand the concept of efficiency
look at a ranger complaining about spamming skills. thought rangers are experts at spamming skills.

Yeah...you don't even need wurms to max those titles, it's a much quicker and easier alternative - BUT unlike ursan, this doesn't make it easier to do EVERY vanquish/mission now does it?
Every time i see "suchabody has earned VQ/LG" i think "pfft...ursan..." simply because it cheapens the title - as if PvE isn't easy enough now.

I don't understand the concept of efficiency..riiight...using an incredibly imba skill which cheapens GW for me and makes the game more boring via skill spam, buttonmashing and actually earning something doing it on the hardest mode possible for PvE?

No wonder PvPers look down on PvEers...because most of them now use the cheapest way without even TRYING something that will benefit their skill.

BTW, Ranger's don't spam skills, they use them skillfully, and speaking from a fairly experienced point of view - i would say you are rather ignorant.
You're thinking of the next ranger who spams Magebane/Savage/D-shot on recharge without thinking about shutting down skills.
Seriously, you say I don't value efficiency, then you say "rangers are experts at spamming skills"...it is YOU who does not understand that concept, don't pin the blame on me young man.

Bryant Again · Jan 21, 2008, 01:29 AM // 01:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadlynoob

Bryant, stop assuming everyone is rich like you, buying all the skill packs/stuff
we are not spoiled people.

What made you assume I bought it? I mean I could, it's only five bucks. If I was really set on wanting to have all the skills I could easily buy an unlock pack, but I'm perfectly content just playing through the game and earning them for free. I'm sure a lot would be with me on this one.

This is where we lost each other. Are you saying it's a bad thing roleplaying characters have a hard time being greater than a PvP character? I'm a little confused now...Earlier, I thought it was that when buying the PvP packs all skills are unlocked for your account and only available through PvP characters. Then you said I was wrong so I thought "oh, so they unlock for PvE players as well it seems!" Now you're telling me they don't. Now, I don't see a problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadlynoob

Bryant got a good point, monks needs a nerf everytime they find a way to solo temple hm

Um okay. An Ursan group needs healers. In Ursanway, the monks are really the only true profession in the team since there is a large number of skills and builds they can bring. When I said "Besides those two monks there is little variety to no variety in what people are using," that's what I meant: that the monks are the only ones in Ursanway who actually have to make a build. No idea where you got me saying monks needed to be nerfed.

Regarding the Desolation: The Wurms aren't a concern because they're only in the Desolation, and you could do just fine in the area without it. There's little rewarding in going through the areas besides upping your NF titles. In regards to farming for loot/money, it doesn't matter. There are far numerous other methods that could yield better results.

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadlynoob

we do know how to play our profession, it is you who do not understand the concept of efficiency

I wouldn't really speak for everyone in this sense, if I were you...

Yichi · Jan 21, 2008, 02:01 AM // 02:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Blackstar

PvE skills were specifically made to be powerful, Anet is not going to take that away...

I would suggest you take a look at the pre-nerfed versions on Intensity, Seed of Life, and Theres Nothing to Fear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Blackstar

Ursan blessing is one skill that encourages pug groups, something anet has been striving for since GW has been released.

Ursan only allows other classes another alternative to be able to play in a non Tank/ele/ele/bip/monk/monk group that the average pug mentality thinks is what you need to have. It is actually discouraging to any "real" group forming to do anything depending on where and what you're doing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Blackstar

Lastly, no one said you have to use the skill, PvE does not need balance...

PvE does require balance for a few different reasons. Player Economy and the Player Community are 2 of the main reasons as to why it requires balance. If not, then the game basically turns into a button mash grind that is all about farming and grinding titles, much like every other MMO that has ever hit the market and does not encourage player development, just encourages repetitiveness among the players and community.

trobinson97 · Jan 21, 2008, 02:06 AM // 02:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yichi

PvE does require balance for a few different reasons. Player Economy and the Player Community are 2 of the main reasons as to why it requires balance. If not, then the game basically turns into a button mash grind that is all about farming and grinding titles, much like every other MMO that has ever hit the market and does not encourage player development, just encourages repetitiveness among the players and community.

Hahaha, that's exactly what it is anyway!

deadlynoob · Jan 21, 2008, 02:12 AM // 02:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

Yeah...you don't even need wurms to max those titles, it's a much quicker and easier alternative - BUT unlike ursan, this doesn't make it easier to do EVERY vanquish/mission now does it?
Every time i see "suchabody has earned VQ/LG" i think "pfft...ursan..." simply because it cheapens the title - as if PvE isn't easy enough now.

I don't understand the concept of efficiency..riiight...using an incredibly imba skill which cheapens GW for me and makes the game more boring via skill spam, buttonmashing and actually earning something doing it on the hardest mode possible for PvE?

No wonder PvPers look down on PvEers...because most of them now use the cheapest way without even TRYING something that will benefit their skill.

BTW, Ranger's don't spam skills, they use them skillfully, and speaking from a fairly experienced point of view - i would say you are rather ignorant.
You're thinking of the next ranger who spams Magebane/Savage/D-shot on recharge without thinking about shutting down skills.
Seriously, you say I don't value efficiency, then you say "rangers are experts at spamming skills"...it is YOU who does not understand that concept, don't pin the blame on me young man.

riding wurm is much easier and faster. how is using a set of wurm skill differs from using a set of ursa skill? both are button smashing frenzy, the only difference is the wurm have a hard res, and we dont need 2 more monks to follow around in desolation. Seriously, PvP has nothing to do with ursa, it doesn't even effect them in anyway. old-man does not understand new things, thus they get afraid of technology and generation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Regarding the Desolation: The Wurms aren't a concern because they're only in the Desolation, and you could do just fine in the area without it. There's little rewarding in going through the areas besides upping your NF titles. In regards to farming for loot/money, it doesn't matter. There are far numerous other methods that could yield better results.

you actually can get rich from doing that over and over again, what could you get from ub? same, money, title, loot.

Same argument, you cant use ursa in desolation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Originally Posted by deadlynoob
we do know how to play our profession, it is you who do not understand the concept of efficiency

I wouldn't really speak for everyone in this sense, if I were you...

have faith in other player, you just assuming they are noob because they are using ursa.

Yichi · Jan 21, 2008, 02:14 AM // 02:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by trobinson97

Hahaha, that's exactly what it is anyway!

No, theres plenty of options that make it not a complete mindless button mash farm for hours game. Just because others don't partake in them doesn't mean that they aren't there.

Razz Thom · Jan 21, 2008, 02:35 AM // 02:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

There is huge difference from simple farming run for worthless green or some points to title. Huge.

ok you never said that, ever................. except right there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

As Zwei2stein has already touched upon, when in an Ursan group you are not being exposed and introduced to a wide array of professions. Besides those two monks there is little variety to no variety in what people are using.

And in the PUG you are talking about players aren't introduced to a wide variety of builds and skills either. They are only introduced to the very specific builds leetist jerks find suitable for the run. These people don't learn creativity or any real skill either, they only learn how to run the skills they are told are acceptable and nothing else.

Oh and just to clear this up, I have never used Ursan to vanq an area or even run an elite area. I just want to know it is there if I want to.